Joe D

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    0 comments  ·  Premiere Pro » Performance  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

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    Joe D shared this idea  · 
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    382 comments  ·  Premiere Pro » User experience/interface  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

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    All,


    first of all I wanted to thank everyone for making this a productive conversation over the last couple of days.


    As several people responded to my comment about keeping the tone civilised, I need to dwell on that for a minute. Please hear me out, this is important to everyone on my crew and I hope it will be to you.


    Saying that we shouldn't be surprised when things get heated is very problematic in my opinion. How do you expect a junior person on my team to respond to a technical question when it is combined with something that can easily be described as hate speech? How do you think we can actually come together on actual issues when there's already the assumption that we're a big faceless corporation, not even listening to our customers?


    People on my team have received threats. I've been there over the years,…

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    Joe D commented  · 

    And to add, I have moved over to Davinci. But I still have some clients that still request Premiere. So I am stuck. Especially since all of my past work was edited in Premiere. AND TO TOP THAT OFF, it's a monthly subscription. Which means if I want to access any of my past projects, I need to keep paying Adobe. So it's a vicious cycle. I am trapped, just like many other customers. Scroll back through this thread. Im not the only one that mentions this. So the fact that i'm paying or a program that does not work properly is not ideal, wouldn't you say?

    That is why Creative Cloud is a scam. They knew this would happen. They wanted to trap us.

    If Adobe offered a one time payment version of premiere that would still allow me to access my old files, I would F**K right off so fast. And they know most of their subscriber base would, too. So I'm sure that will never happen.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    All of this is relevant. We asked them to stop giving us pointless updates and focus on the bugs and stability. The program still runs like ****. I can’t use most of the program without wanting to pull my hair out. I have a maxed out M1 Max. I shouldn’t have any problems. I have higher standards to how I’d like programs to work. I’m sorry you don’t. The new Apple silicon have been out for about 2 years. They had enough time.

    If it works for you, then congrats. Why are you in here if it’s so amazing?

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    Joe D commented  · 

    William, I feel my opinions on this program are shared by many people. Would you say I should just put Adobe's boot in my mouth and be quiet? Sounds like it. This is the most direct way we can communicate. And i'm sure Adobe doesn't want a twitter mob to talk about how bad this program is. So sadly this is the only place we can do this. Adobe created this platform for us to do this in. And if they aren't going to respond to PAYING CUSTOMERS, then i'm going to keep trying.

    We want change. We haven't gotten it. We are frustrated. Adobe needs to know this so they can understand we want change. If this were actually changed in 2020, then I wouldn't be here.

    If Adobe wants to actually make change as they said 2 years ago, I don't see it. And if any Adobe people want to email me, please do! Explain to me how this program is Not a scam at this point. Because Me and many other people feel this way. And the lack of response on this for 3 MONTHS is unacceptable. There needs to be ACCOUNTABILITY.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    John, I think that is a waste of time unfortunately.
    They haven't made any changes we've wanted in years. They're not going to take any advice we have. Especially since their actual response to this was to the affect of: "Deal with it."

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    Joe D commented  · 

    They deleted this for some reason. But I feel it's important for both current/future users, as well as the people working at Adobe to see this.

    THIS is why we are upset:

    https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2020/05/19/may-2020-adobe-video-audio-performance-report

    Unfulfilled promises made in 2020. I remember seeing this and thinking things were finally going to be great. The most charitable I can be at this point is telling Adobe to Rewrite their program.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Remember when they made this statement 2 YEARS AGO:

    https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2020/05/19/may-2020-adobe-video-audio-performance-report

    And this only happened after we had to literally BEG for the program to work, for years. They didn't change a thing. All empty words.
    I just laugh to myself, but get so frustrated when I hear it took ya'll over 3 years of research to make this new UI. Waste of your time. Waste of Our time. Again this is our livelihood and your share holders have been the only ones to benefit from lining their pockets with our subscription money, over false promises made years ago.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Me personally, I have hardly used any of the new features they've added over the years. Because I don't even know where to access them. Why isn't it easier to locate these features? Like Scene Edit Detection is hidden away in a dropdown menu. Object tracking is like a joke because I didn't even know that existed until I accidentally made it happen about a year ago. Haven't used it since. I've never used auto ducking. Never used any automatic feature Premiere has ever made. It just adds more work, so theres literally no reason to have these "auto features" that sometimes take longer than doing it manually. They aren't accessible at all. I forget these features even exist. And when I do use them, they're half-baked. EX. Object tracking adds a giant progress bar over the screen and you have to WAIT for it to be finished. And you can't watch it do it's job so you can make sure it works. Instead you have to wait until its complete and then HOPE it worked. It feels like you're saying "Quick throw it in there because we need more features! Who cares about the user experience! They'll figure it out!"

    I just think there needs to be a better unity between features and Interface. I'm sure if I read through the Premiere features list I would be surprised at whats there. But I am not inclined to learn about them because the program itself does not welcome it. I just feel like the program is really bad where it's currently. And at this point I think creating a whole other Premiere from scratch will be the only way for me to like this program again. Why? Because it feels like someone is sticking body modifications on an old 80's Toyota. The car runs like ****. And it will continue to run like **** until it's rebuilt. I would say I was happy with Premiere 10% of the time i've used it, in my entire life.

    When I open Premiere, I instantly hate my life. It's WORK. It's a JOB. There's nothing pleasing or fun about this program. Why can't my job be fun again? Instead I hate when I have to use Adobe's programs because it feels like i'm sitting in some cubicle in a terrible 9-5 job. I don't feel creative. I don't feel inspired. Premiere is a pain machine, only existing to give me anxiety attacks and depression. So for my mental health I am switching over to Resolve. I waited for years and I think it's evident it's not going to get better.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    I appreciate the tips!
    I’m sure I’ll buy it soon myself, as it looks pretty awesome.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    While I do use Add-ons, I think we should not let Premiere use that as an excuse not to fix their program.

    The more we advertise Add-ons and workarounds, the less Adobe will be inclined to actually fix it on their end.

    Like, sure the Excalibur plugins are great, but those should not be the solution.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Patrick was like: “We’ll work towards winning your trust…”
    And then disappears for a month and a half.

    Great.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Well, we are 2 days into this week and still no response. Nothing.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    But regardless, none of this matters if we don't get a response from Adobe. So I will not be wasting my time thinking of features they will not take in the first place.

    We need a response. We need a new method to talk to people. Getting a response every few weeks is UNACCEPTABLE.

    There needs to be more people here. If this page doesn't work then we need to be more public about our opinions. Blast it all over Twitter. People need to know about these predatory business practices.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    @Steven, that is honestly the best idea.

    Kinda like how the rest of the program lets you hide certain buttons under the preview window. Maybe it's sorta the same functionality for the export window. I don't even look at 90% of the stuff that's there. So making it where we can display only the settings we need. I would personally only have bitrate, resolution, and captions. the rest is just timely to scroll through and find.

    Especially since the interface doesn't scroll smoothly. It jumps between the options, making it hard to track where you've just scrolled in the large list of items.. Maybe changing it to where it scroll at a smooth rate, just like when scrolling through a browser or anything else. Natural scrolling. No more jumpy scrolling. It's as if everything is attached to a ratchet when scrolling. When you do smooth scrolling in the panels etc. it also just feels like a much nicer experience.

    I have a 120hz screen. I want everything to feel like 120hz.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Also front page has 10 highly voted posts about how bad the import/export pages are.
    Okay, so now add the fact that we have not gotten a response in a month and a half.

    They’re hoping we forget about this and just accept these changes.

    Like today I saw they finally acknowledged a huge bug after it being posted in 2018… 2018!

    If you haven’t done the math that’s 4 YEARS.

    4 years…

    I don’t have any hope they’re actually going to do something about this.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Also don’t stop at Premiere. After Effects needs to be completely re-written, too. Although, I imagine we will never see a working version of After Effects in our lifetime. Maybe the next update will allow us to playback 1080p 8-bit h.264 footage at 13fps instead of 12fps.. Cool “multi frame” rendering that doesn’t make it faster. Such an insult to even call that an update.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    I just bought Davinci Resolve the other day due to them not taking this seriously. It’s $299 FOREVER.

    I was able to playback RED 6K footage with color corrections and effects at FULL QUALITY. Real time. No dropped frames. It was beautiful.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    The one and only solution is Adobe stepping up to the plate.

    I agree, @Ben. The fact they we are paying $54 a month for a half-working set of programs is bull****. We shouldn’t have to buy extra add-ons to make it work.

    What I want is Adobe to ask us WHY IT DOESNT WORK FOR US. NOT tell us why it works. You don’t know what works for us, obviously.

    They need to address this and let us know whether they’re fixing it or not.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    @Antoine, if you want to help, maybe you can use your connects at Adobe to tell them to answer all these bug fix requests.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    I think we need to start a petition. They don’t care to listen.

    More and new workers at Adobe. More than 2 people responding to this page.

    We shouldn’t have to wait YEARS for any change to happen. Or even get a response.

    This is our livelihood. This isn’t a hobby.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    I’m sorry Antoine but that does not help.

    The problem is strictly with Adobe at this point. They messed it up. It’s not your responsibility to fix it.
    Adding features on top of a buggy mess isn’t the solution we want.

    Unless you can create a whole new import/export screen, not sure you can help.

    And I agree with @John D Frey. The question “why can’t you do X?” is so insulting. We told Adobe how we want it. Adobe made the choice AND mistake of choosing something different. Now us the user has to deal with THEIR mistake.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Are there any updates or developments on the import/export screen?

    I think I can speak for most people here when I say I’m a bit worried this is just going to be swept under the rug. Giving us the “you’ll get used to it over time” speech.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    There was one other annoyance I've run into.
    When exporting and finding the destination, it always defaults to the main Macintosh HD. So I have to go searching through my folders to get back to the project folder I've created.

    Can it be default that the export destination automatically starts where the current project file is? That is another super long process that adds way more clicks than needed.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Hi Antoine,
    Thanks for the tip but I don't believe that is working either.
    Premiere doesn't seem to have a batch render export feature that works with my workflow.

    Here is an example of what my usual timeline looks like when exporting multiple videos at once. I basically take a fully exported video and cut it down into smaller cuts in the same sequence. Then once they are done, I export each one individually with the In/Out points.

    If there is a way easier and faster method of doing this i'm all ears, but I haven't seen one yet! It would be great if it could auto-detect each of those clips, create the in/out, and automatically stick them into a render queue, but not sure if thats possible.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Hi Patrick, thank you for the clarification on that process.
    And thank you for taking the time to work with us on this!

    I had another thought that kind of goes along with your last reply below.

    When adding new features, I know it may have a different effect on what computer is running the program. For example last year I had a 2017 5K iMac and I gotta say the program just didn't run smoothly at all. The timeline was at a solid 12fps when scrolling through. Making changes wasn't responsive and it stuttered a lot. And I got a lot of crashes.
    I then upgraded to the new MacBook M1 Max. The timeline itself moves smoothly on this computer, but the rest of the program seems to be still trying to play catch up. The text feature is so clunky. Any MOGRTs take forever to render and export. etc etc.

    I'm sure the amount of computers this apps runs on can really make it tough to pinpoint how bugs affect certain people. Maybe an idea moving forward is grouping different customers together based on their hardware? Or maybe when developing the apps and fixes, there is a set prompt the beta testers go through to see if the program is stable before release. More in-depth testing specific to each platform. Mac, PC, etc. Just an idea.

    But also the Beta testing could be way more open and advertised, as some have stated in this thread about not knowing it existed. Maybe make an incentive for customers to report more bugs. Because i'm sure most people click away from bug reporting when crashes happen. Maybe customers are rewarded with Adobe stock credits or even discounts on products when they participate in making the app better. This way we are fostering a more positive community. A more active community. And i'm sure we will squash more bugs this way.

    These programs aren't cheep, but incentives like this would make more people excited about this app. Feel more heard. And maybe feel a sense of accomplishment knowing they fixed something! I know in the past I've felt accomplished when I was able to add my two cents into an actual bug fix.

    A community to really look at is the Blender community. While I know Blender is an open source app, maybe some parts of that can be adopted by Adobe. More transparent and more communication. Basically an actual live updated list of bugs that are currently being worked on Actively. And what bugs are next in the queue. Updated daily or even weekly.
    Example: "This team is working on these 5 bugs. They are slated to be completed by June. If you have anymore info about these bugs, please reply in the feed below so we can all discuss!" Or something along those lines. And that actual team can see what we are saying. Instead of there being a middle person that may not understand what the customer is saying. Having the actual team members chime in and ask more questions while they work on the fixes.

    Again it allows us to feel like we are actually apart of this process and community. Effectively getting rid of the feeling of Adobe being this massive conglomerate we have zero say in.

    Please give this a thought or two!
    -Joe

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Patrick,

    Again, where are these other channels you are getting this info?
    Please show us where people are praising this update. Because I have not seen it. Quite the opposite, every professional I've seen talk about this is leaving Premiere until this is being fixed.

    Look at the dudes at Corridor Digital. They are one of, if not the largest film and VFX channel on YouTube. Roughly 15 MILLION SUBSCRIBERS across the board. They made TWO 1 hour~ long podcasts talking about how bad After Effects and Premiere is currently. And also about how Adobe is not listening to it's users. They are all moving to Resolve.

    Here are those links for reference:

    https://youtu.be/YeopaTW16kA

    https://youtu.be/aVNCgmAsI8c

    Be sure to listen to the part about "Technical debt".

    This just shows that Adobe does not truly know their audience.
    This entire forum, and all the other methods you speak of are obviously not working.

    There should only be one central place to get this kind of info. And if you do see it on other channels, post it here so we can all collectively discuss and vote on it. because now as you say there are multiple channels of communication. How is that helpful?

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Hi Patrick,

    What is the point of having this entire forum if you aren't going to take our concerns seriously?? This is what this forum is for. I don't understand the logic behind this...

    I don't know any other editing community that get's this passionate about updates and fixing this program. Sure there's tons of people in here that have the ability to move to a different editing software like Resolve. But for many of us, we have been using Adobe for the past 10+ years. So all of our projects are tied to your applications. We are trapped. I feel that fact is either ignored or not understood. That is why we are up in arms so fervently. It's our home.

    At this point I am confused as to what this forum is for if our opinions aren't going to be taken seriously. Where is this proof that people like the UI? I could not find a single article or user of Premiere that is super excited about this update. Is there a second user forum we don't know about? How can we be involved with those people? How can we better help you make these changes? It sounds like marketing told you to say that.

    If you have to explain to us why an update is good in Adobe's eyes, then it's a bad update. It's like explaining why a joke is funny to someone. It's patronizing. Many of us are the one's that edit all those marketing videos you see from companies. We know how it works. It's insulting.

    Us: "Hey this update breaks the program"
    Adobe: "Well Other people say it's amazing. So deal with it"

    It sounds like Adobe already spent a lot of money on this change and now we, (The user base) have to deal with that mistake. And instead of admitting that mistake is made, we have to be talked down to like we are all children.

    And telling us to just use Media Encoder does not fix the issue and only adds more insult to injury. We have been stating that's the issue! The workflow! Just sending exports there does not fix any problem!

    Here's why: Imagine I have 6 videos to export. Imagine they are the second version of this cut, so a "V2." This means I already have those 6 file names with "V1" currently in the folder I want to export to. Yes I would definitely use Media encoder to create a queue and export from there. BUT, each of these 6 videos have completely different names. Previously I would open the File Destination and click the previous "V1" and just quickly change it to "V2". Done. I could rapid fire those 6 versions in a few quick clicks and done. That is impossible now. Now I have to open up the folder where those "V1"s are, copy the file name, then paste it manually into the file name box... So for each of those 6 videos, now I've spent extra time LEAVING THE ADOBE APP and going through Finder to copy and paste the name. That is the workflow breaker for me.

    At this point it's not death by a thousand cuts. There's giant sword stuck straight through this program that makes it unusable in a lot of ways.

    Again, what is this forum even for if you are not going to take our concerns seriously?

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Also can we please please address this issue that has been a problem for YEARS?

    Every time I bring it up in this forum, it's literally ignored! I've never gotten a response.

    When selecting a LUT to export with, it always says "None". How did we even change the export window and this wasn't even fixed? Was it purposely skipped? Am I missing something?

    You may ask, "Why do you need to export with a LUT?"
    BECAUSE when exporting from premiere, the color is not true to the edit. It is way more washed out. So the only fix that was given by Adobe is adding this stupid LUT "QT Gamma Compensation" at the end. Why won't it just export with the proper color? Do you think a beginner will understand this? No, they won't. I know pro editors that don't know this. They've just accepted that Premiere's color will just be washed out.

    Also, having a LUT in an export preset does not work when sharing projects with others. Another reason why Presets are not a viable option alone. So if I am sharing a project with another editor, I know the color will never be good. So I avoid working with other editors because of that.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Hi Patrick, thank you.

    While I do appreciate the response on this, I still don’t agree with the “just deal with it” response.

    My main issue is the fact that it truly is not less clicks and less mouse movement.
    The type of work I do requires on average 10-12 exports a day and the file names are something like “Project Title_Sequence Name_V1”. If I have to type that out 10-12 times without being able to just click the file name to auto copy, that is extremely time consuming and annoying.
    When changing the export name requires you to type it out every single time, it’s bad.
    When there’s a separate box for file name and export destination, that’s more clicks. If we can combine those like it used to be, that would work way better. And if combining those boxes isn’t an option, then do both. Allow people to type it there OR in the file destination Finder box. Have multiple options for the same thing. Don’t force people to use a program YOU want us to use it. It is evident that everyone uses this program differently. So give as many options so you’re not shutting out people who have already created a smooth workflow with the last UI.

    AS FOR PRESETS…I use presets every single time i export. But I also need to check the “burn in captions” box every time because that does not save in your presets. I have to click it every single time. So that is fundamentally broken and does not follow the idea that we don’t have to go through those export options. That option is greyed out unless there are captions inserted. Captions are created After the video is cut together. So it won’t allow you to select an option for a preset unless it’s actively being used. That is broken.

    When it comes to importing, I honestly don’t know what else is easier than literally dragging and dropping it into the project panel. That is one click, one drag. Done. Or even double clicking the project bin and doing it that way. Add a small “Import button” next to the project panel. Idk, but adding a whole other page just to import files is completely nonsensical. The import page is irrelevant to most people so now thats ANOTHER click to get past that window for people who don’t use it. Again don’t force us to use the program in a specific way. Make it adaptable to a wide variety of workflows.

    At the end of the day I have been using premiere for roughly 13 years now. These combative responses are not productive at all. We are asking please to at least make the new UI work exactly like the previous export screen. Because now you’re ONLY tending to the newcomers as you say. (Which doesn’t make sense because this isn’t even user friendly.)
    …What about the people that have given you roughly $600 a year ever since Creative Cloud existed. I’ve given y’all almost $6000, dude. This suite used to be $3500~ to buy outright. When you look at it in that way, it’s bad. That’s a lot of money for programs that just don’t work that great.

    THEN the insult to injury is seeing how Resolve, (A FREE PROGRAM) is so much faster, smoother, and has all the same features and more that work better, (and actually work). And if i want to buy it outright, I CAN. For $300. That $6000 is not justified to me in that context.

    As for New editors, they aren’t going to premiere first. They’re doing Resolve since it’s free/affordable if bought fully, and is pretty great. Every editor that I talk to is already migrating to Resolve, since it’s free and works.

    With all of that being said, that is why People are mad. When we’ve been begging to make this program work for years and years and it just never got better.
    We truly mean it when we say “STOP MAKING NEW FEATURES AND FIX THE PROGRAM FIRST. Or better yet, rebuild it from the ground up. Including After Effects.

    That large investment and support we’ve given over the years and for what? Now we are just thrown to the back like our opinions do not matter.

    I think the larger picture here now are the people who do the beta testing. If there are so many people up in arms about this update, then those people might need to be changed to people who have better opinions and thoughts on those areas.

    And ask yourself this. Are people going to complain if you get rid of the import and export screens? Nope. But we are complaining that we have them. That should be the main takeaway here.

    Thank you,
    Joe

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    3 comments  ·  After Effects » Performance  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

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    Joe D commented  · 

    I think Nigel is more-so upset at how we have to explain this in the first place.
    We want Adobe to know how their own program works. To ask us means you don't know how your own program works.

    How are we supposed to feel confident in a company that aren't even editors themselves? Maybe you know how to cut things together but that's not all we need. I've been told the opposite but I haven't seen any proof, as we are still asked why these things happen. Idk, it's your program, you tell us why it doesn't work. Instead we pay $30 a month AT LEAST to be your beta testers.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Again, it's a clean install of the program.

    I'm curently not using an older machine, either. I'm using a maxed out MacBook Pro I bought 6 months ago. This program should be running with zero issue.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    This has been an issue for years. Did this on my old 2017 iMac as well.

    Basically anytime I use an essential Text Tool or Essential Graphics of any kind. Even the built in ones, It does this. (Attached screenshot) Sometimes it freezes this way and the playback doesn't work. So I have to quit premiere by Force Quitting it.

    Also This screen recording I did for my last bug report.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82V57RkuEs

    The aspect ratio flickers. It happens in both 16x9 and 9x16. Basically any aspect ratio. Again this happen every single time. It's 100% repeatable.

    I have a MacBook Pro 16-inch
    M1 Max
    64GB RAM

    Again, I have yet to get a response. I will continue to ask about this because this is ridiculous. This is a huge bug. Why hasn't this been responded to?

    Imagine the screen flickering every single time you edit any text?
    It is seizure inducing. Please please please respond.

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Aspect Ratio glitching when editing any text or Mogort on the timeline. M1 Max. Sometimes freezing on the incorrect aspect ratio. Causing me to wait for it to pop back to normal, or restart the program.

    Here is a video example: This can be replicated 100% of the time, so it's not a random happening. This also happened on my old 2017 iMac. It's been this way for over a year I believe.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82V57RkuEs

    My Setup:
    -2021 16-Inch Macbook Pro
    -M1 Max
    -64 GB RAM

    Thank you

    Joe D shared this idea  · 
  7. 6 votes

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  8. 1 vote

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Unfortunately you have to use the "QT Gamma Compensation" LUT on export. You can google it to find it.
    In the Effects tab on the export screen you have to insert that LUT there. Then it will export with correct colors. Hope this helps!

  9. 3 votes

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  10. 2 votes

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  11. 3 votes

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  12. 2 votes

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  13. 3 votes

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  14. 2 votes

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  15. 40 votes

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    10 comments  ·  After Effects » General  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

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  16. 261 votes

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    43 comments  ·  After Effects » User experience/interface  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

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    Joe D commented  · 

    Love how this has been here for a year and yet no one has responded.
    We need a new method to communicate. They need to hire more people. They need to use that money we give them for more than just lining their pockets. How about we start there

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    Joe D commented  · 

    I made a post about this in the Premiere Pro section.

    Imagine having a monthly town hall live stream where we get to interact and talk directly to the developers about fixes and bugs. I feel the biggest problem is they don't truly know how we are using their products.

    Also having exact timelines when updates are expected. And what fixes these updates include.
    So maybe a little communication on both sides so we can finally have a smooth experience with these apps.

    Joe D supported this idea  · 
  17. 1 vote

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  18. 1 vote

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    1 comment  ·  Premiere Pro » Color/Lumetri  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

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    Joe D commented  · 

    I think also they need to redesign how they display lists of options. Like it feels like they just threw it together. I'd like to see some dividing lines between text, Maybe boxes around multiple options so it's not confusing seeing text smashed together.

  19. 2 votes

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  20. 62 votes

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