STOP SWITCHING TO THE NEXT CLIP WHEN I'M TRYING TO MANIPULATE KEYFRAMES
This is super annoying. I create a keyframe, let's say a motion keyframe. Set it to 50. Then create another one, set it to 100 and put it at the end of the clip. Then I scroll to the second keyframe and suddenly, Premiere has switched me to the next clip in the timeline for some reason. This is so annoying. Even moreso when I'm using my mouse to move the scrubber around, sometimes it juts me all the way to the end of the timeline. I can't imagine a scenario where I would want this behavior.
Michael Verzella commented
I concur with Matt Lyon, having a margin would solve much in my day-to-day.
I am often in those situations described by Pierre Louis Beranek and would also appreciate key commands locking my focus in place.
Matt Lyon commented
Hi all, curious what everyone thinks of this idea: modify the default view of the ECP so there is some runway on either side of the clip bounds (see attached image). This is similar to how AVID behaves. I think this would provide an elegant solution to a lot of the issues people are facing. It would be much easier to accurately place keys at or beyond the clip bounds; it would be easier to lasso keys; it would be easier to fine tune bezier curves; and it would just generally be a less cramped way of representing the information. And in many cases, it would eliminate the need to toggle between "pin to clip" in the option menu.
Thanks for all the great feedback. We are listening :)
Daniel DeStefano commented
I think it would be a big help if the default "last keyframe" of a clip would always be the BEGINNING of the last visible keyframe, and not the end of it, aka the start of the next clip. And turning off "pin to clip" makes the program glitch out and fast forwards me to the very end of the sequence, so I always have "pin to clip" on.
Hi Matt, while you're 100% correct that there are situations editors need to place their keyframes outside the visible bounds of the clip in the ECP, I disagree that "these considerations don't come in to play that often". I imagine most pro editors need to place keyframes outside the visible bounds of clips regularly (especially when doing cross fades between clips with animated motion settings). In all of these situations, turning off 'Pin to Clip' takes care of this. This unfortunately gives rise to another major issue with the ECP which I suggest a solution for here (also linked below in my previous post): When editing in Effect Controls Panel, always show clip in Program Monitor
The keyboard modifier I suggest (Ctrl-drag) to drag a keyframe to the end of the last frame could also be used to override 'Pin to Clip'. For Pr to properly differentiate between an editor wanting to place keyframes at the end of the last visible frame or overriding the 'Pin to Clip' setting, perhaps a half second delay could be used:
Ctrl-drag cursor or keyframe(s) at end of clip = cursor or keyframes placed at end of last frame
Ctrl-drag cursor or keyframe(s) at end of clip and hold for a half second = 'Pin to Clip' is overridden, allowing editor to access the clip's outpoint handle. Note: in the case of an editor wanting to access a clip's handle past its IN point, no delay would be necessary, since users can already set keyframes on the beginning of the the first frame without issue, therefore no differentiator is necessary.
Another solution would be to use a different keyboard modifier for each task, but that would give users more stuff to remember.
A third more complete solution would be to use both solutions:
Ctrl-drag HOLD... OR Alt-drag (without any hold delay) = Override 'Pin to Clip' on OUT point
Ctrl-drag OR Alt-drag (neither with any hold delay) = Override 'Pin to Clip' on IN point
No one ever wants a clip's slow zoom in/out (or any other animated motion settings) to suddenly stop halfway through a cross-fade with the following clip! Given just how common an editing situation this is, it would be nice to see the ECP implement a workflow that helps us get this kind of stuff done more easily. The other FRs I link to in my previous post would also help!
What do you guys think about the keyboard modifier solutions I suggest here?
Matt Lyon commented
@Wes, thanks for the follow up, and thanks everyone for their comments.
Just to add my humble two cents: There are definitely situations where you want to place keyframes beyond the bounds of a clip. The main situation is when rendering with motion blur. Take for example if you have an object sliding across the screen, in continuous motion across the whole clip. If you place your final position keyframe on the last frame of the clip, then the motion blur won't be calculated correctly on the last frame. In order for motion blur to be calculated correctly in this situation, you need to place your final key outside the bounds of the clip range. (The reason being that the motion blur algorithm looks at the inertia in the previous and next frame in order to calculate the blur) This is common practice for character animators, who will usually place their first and last keyframes outside the bounds of their shot.
Another situation is if you are keyframing an object decelerating exponentially towards zero, but you don't want the object to actually come to a full stop. One might nudge your final keyframe outside the bounds of the clip, so the object doesn't come to a full stop during the shot.
I know for most NLE editors, these considerations don't come in to play that often. I think most Premiere editors would rather keep all their keyframes within the bounds of the clip. I like @Pierre's suggestion of a modifier key to override the clip limit bound.
Hi once again Wes,
While your team is looking at improving the ECP, I would really appreciate it if you could please consider these other much needed ECP improvements as well:
When editing in Effect Controls Panel, always show clip in Program Monitor
Keyframe pinning options in Effect Controls Panel: pin to IN and/or OUT point(s)
Copy/Paste Speed Keyframes with Ctrl-C Ctrl-V (instead of just with 'Paste Attributes')
Transition Visibility toggle in Effect Controls panel (so we can always see the result of keyframe adjustments in the Program Monitor!)
Slip Clip: Keyboard modifier that would make a HUGE difference!
Those FRs don't have nearly the number of votes that this one has, but they could greatly improve our workflows nonetheless! Unfortunately the voting system on User Voice is a poor indication of what would help users most, because people tend to vote for the most obvious, bite-sized gripes that are easy to grasp in a second or two, while skipping requests that require more time to comprehend. FRs that get initial traction get placed in front of far more eyes on User Voice than FRs that don't get the same initial traction, no matter how valid or essential. This means that many important FRs quickly get lost in the fray of hundreds of other requests, which is unfortunate since many of the FRs that don't get this initial traction could provide us with even more benefits than the simpler requests voters tend to gravitate towards.
Anyway, I cannot thank your team enough for giving the ECP the attention it's been needing ever since Premiere became Premiere Pro... so once again, THANK YOU! :)
DANNETTE MEHALIK commented
Thanks for the attention! and just want to chime in and say +1 to what Pierre said. If there were just a modifier to drag the keyframe beyond, that should do it... though I can't think of a scenario why you would want to as it means you can no longer see what you're doing to the clip in question.
Thank you for chiming in and looking into giving the ECP some much needed attention.
To answer your questions:
1) If this behavior was changed as requested, can you think of cases where a user may want to set a keyframe or drag a keyframe to the actual edit point?
No. BUT that doesn't mean that just because I can't imagine a need for this that no user would ever need it. The solution is simple: keyboard modifier override. Want to drag a keyframe past the automatic lock off point at the beginning of the last frame? Just Ctrl-drag the keyframe and the lock point is temporarily disregarded!
2) This has been a very common workflow and some might consider this to be standard practice in many applications? Do you disagree?
No matter how 'standard practice' something might be doesn't mean that it is right. It was 'standard practice' for women to not be allowed to vote for most of human history. That doesn't mean that it is right, and likewise, in the case of Pr, preserving an awful standard practice just for the sake of continuing historical precedent would to be detrimental to users.
3) Can you think of cases where some may prefer the current behavior and would be disrupted if they could not drag a keyframe to the edit point, for example?
This question is basically the same as your first question. No, I can't think of why fixing this would disrupt anyone's workflow, but in the unlikely chance it might, simply implement a keyboard modifier override as suggested. Even if there wasn't a way to please everyone by means of a simple solution like the one I suggest, I think it's important to always consider the needs of the many vs the needs of the very few. But of course, the ideal situation is to satisfy the needs of everyone, which my suggested solution would do.
Thanks again for giving this some much needed attention Wes! :)
This is still an area where we’d like to make some improvements and we do realize this is a long standing request. Thanks for your patience.
As noted, it is currently possible in the Effects Control Panel to drag the playhead or a keyframe to the edit point and this shows the first frame of the next clip in the Program Monitor.
One of the core requests I'm readying here is to not allow the user to scrub or drag a keyframe past the beginning of the last frame of a clip when using the Effects Control Panel. (Of course this is assuming that Pin to Clip is enabled or the clip is not trimmed)
I understand the core issues, desired workflow and fully understand the request.
If this behavior was changed as requested, can you think of cases where a user may want to set a keyframe or drag a keyframe to the actual edit point?
This has been a very common workflow and some might consider this to be standard practice in many applications? Do you disagree? Can you think of some scenarios where you may prefer the current behavior and would be disrupted if you could not drag a keyframe to the edit point, for example?
I do understand that users could still access the edit point using a keyboard shortcut and disabling Pin to Clip is another way to work around these potential snags. I just want to make sure that we minimize undesirable effects for the users that may prefer the existing behavior.
Thanks for the feedback.
Jack Banatoni commented
On the latest update, keyframes are landing between frames. They still move around on their own if zooming out of the effects panel. Clicking the next keyframe button often moves on to the next clip instead of the keyframe, which adds extra steps to adjust the image while seeing the adjustments in the program monitor.
Paul Murphy commented
Here's an easy workaround that doesn't involve turning off Selection Follows Playhead or turning on Pin to Clip: https://bit.ly/ECPEndFrame
I think this is the solution you're looking for: https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/41957968-when-editing-in-effect-controls-panel-show-clip-i.
Let me know if it would solve your problem.
While a agree 100% with the OP's post, it would be nice to see more posts offer solutions rather than just gripe about the problem. Even nicer would be a way to combine related FRs so they appear linked together somehow, or share the sum of votes on each one. The current voting setup on User Voice is an extremely poor reflection of which FRs should get Adobe's attention first, since more often than not, FRs with easily digestible, 'bite-sized' gripes get far more visibility and votes than longer, thoughtful solutions.
To answer your questions: no, there isn't a way to achieve what you asked for in Pr at the moment.
I requested a solution to this problem years ago. It never got any attention. I posted my request again on User Voice recently. Take a look at it here: https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/41382235-transition-visibility-toggle-in-effect-controls-pa.
My FR would toggle transitions on/off, but what you suggest Matt is an even better approach, since it would allow keyframe modification to always be visible in the Program Monitor, regardless of if the frame being modified in the ECP is visible in the Timeline or not. I'll create a new FR for this and post the link here once it's live.
Matt Bacon commented
Here's my workflow: I like to create keyframes passed the end of a clip so that the effect has handles (in a sense) and I can quickly apply transitions in the sequence and not worry too much about a keyframed action stopping during (e.g.) a cross-dissolve. Think, manual photo slideshow and other quick and dirty edits.
"Pin to clip" must be deselected (in the hamburger menu of the Edit Control Window), this allows me to move the playhead in the Edit Window passed the end of the clip boundaries (I/O) established in the sequence.
"Selection follows Playhead" in the sequence menu must ALSO be deselected to allow Premiere to behave as I described. If "Selection follows Playhead" is selected, moving the playhead passed the clip I/O inside the edit control window will cause the NLE to jump to the next clip in the sequence.
What I need:
A way to easily view the changes produced by a keyframe when the keyframe is moved outside of the clip I/O. For still images, I edit the keyframe within the clip i/o (so I can see the changes produced by my keyframe, then I grab the keyframe and drag it passed the end of the clip i/o).
It is my understanding that the source monitor does not show any applied effects (which makes sense), but the program monitor also appears to always follow the sequence playhead (which makes sense and is usually desirable), but sometimes I want a Program Monitor output which follows the playhead inside the Edit Control Window, even when I move that playhead passed the clip I/O in the sequence. Can I achieve this with the current version of PP?
Here's an improved version of this FR since it offers 2 concrete ways the Effects Control Window could be improved through better snapping, thereby solving the problem of switching clips: https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/41067520-improved-snapping-in-effect-controls-window-so-i
Please take a look and vote! The 500+ votes here should count towards that FR since it's the same complaint, but with a concrete solution suggested.
There's an easy fix to this: the playhead should automatically snap to the beginning of the last frame in the ECW. This way, any keyframe that's added will be added to the last frame, WITH THE CLIP STILL VISIBLE IN THE PROGRAM MONITOR! If the editor needs the keyframe to be at the END of the last frame, for whatever obscure reason, then they can manually pull them there. But even when doing so, the ECW still should not switch to the next clip, EVER!
Please fix this Adobe!
Phillip Stanojcic commented
This is a huge one!
Anthony Johns commented
Ctac Ctas commented