I feel this FR thread is going to explode now that v15.2 users are getting messages about the official demise of the Legacy Titler (LT).

Given that zero effort seems to have been put on maintaining the LT in recent years (LT is only getting worse as its features get axed), would any programming effort actually be needed to keep it around until EG at least matches LT in basic functionality?

While it's true that EG outperforms LT in some significant ways, it also fails to match some of LT's most basic functionality, such as:
1. Adding use adjustable rounded corners to a square/rectangle
2. Providing an easy way to preserve a shape's aspect ratio while resizing it towards any direction/corner.
3. Providing intelligent ways to resize titles and shapes in general (Resizing anything in EG is a disaster compared to LT. Here are 12 ways it can be fixed by matching LT's incredibly comprehensive resizing behaviors/keyboard modifiers: https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/41079490-fix-the-way-essential-graphics-resize
4. Missing previews for font styles
5. A way to easily create/view alternative versions of titles that don't interfere with our edit (see illustration): https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/43436316-see-eg-titles-outside-bounds-of-program-monitor-sc
6. An incredibly easy 1-step way to decide on the fly if a title in the Timeline should be duplicated (by cutting or copy/pasting title) or have a new, completely independent version created (by alt-dragging title)

Etc, etc, etc...

Let's keep the conversation alive in the hopes Adobe will listen to at least match EG in basic LT functionality before axing it. We've been using LT for years now, so even if EG is far superior in some aspects, it's of little consolation to editors who stand to lose so many basic titling features.

As always, thanks for listening!

I am happy to share my company’s workflow to describe how Premiere graphics currently does not provide solutions where Legacy Titler does.

I prefer having my titles in a bin in the Projects panel -- this makes organizing, duplicating, and swapping titles with the same style much easier.

You can also do the "Replace With Clip" --> "From Source Monitor" command with the Legacy Titles when they are loaded into the Source panel, which unless I am overlooking something is functionality that is missing from the Essential Graphics panel.

I just saw a popup on premiere 2021 saying it's Retiring the Legacy Titler...

Why why why???????

The Graphics panel is a system hog and it's **** compared to it....

Really frustrated with why adobe ignore professional editors.

My commercial video editing facility has been using Adobe Premiere since version 4.1 in 1999. We have an extensive archive of Premiere project files from which we are often requested to restore and edit. There are THOUSANDS of graphics we would have to re-create if legacy titler is lost.
Another job we are frequently required to do (and Legacy Titler does well) is to edit a title and update every instance of that title across multiple sequences and nests. This is not possible in essential graphics.
At the very minimum, the new essential graphics MUST be able to open legacy titles before Legacy Titler is dropped.

Hey David, I don't think it's tenable to continue supporting this feature going forward. That is why the team is warning you now that it will definitely be removed and you really should plan for it to be gone in an upcoming version. It's not really a choice in some cases with the removal of certain features. It is macOS and Windows or development roadblocks (code!) that often drives these changes. The change has been coming, and editors were made aware of the change a long time by naming it "Legacy" several versions ago (it wasn't always called that). Sorry about that. One suggestion: there are simple third party title tools that can be used as a replacement for Legacy Titler. Perhaps one of those would work better for you? Good luck.

The legacy titler is simple and easy to duplicate and to change. it is clear and obvious. DO NOT delete it PLEASE.
Learning the new unstable, complicated and unwanted titler tool is a waste of energy for thousands of we users. Please please find a way of saving the titler tool.

Agreed! There are still SO many things the legacy titler can do that Essential Graphic cannot.
I just installed the latest update 15.2.0 and received a warning that the title tool will be going away.
You had better be sure that Essential Graphics can do EVERYTHING:
- Insert graphics into scrolling/crawling titles
- Position, Distance, Size, and Spread to drop shadows
- Multiple strokes
- Shape layers
- Text on path
- A fast font browser
- ALL the font metrics tools... ALL
- ALL the paragraph alignment tools
- Positioning tools (alignment tools)

Question... I know you have forums, but do you even have a forum where you actually discuss your future plans? Perhaps that would be a great way to make useful updates without killing your user base from shock.
And you say, "Well, we've been saying Legacy Titler is going away for years." Well yeah, that's great, but you have to have a fully-functional basic titler first. The only thing good about Essential Graphics are MOGRTs. That's it. As for a simple titler, it's a pain. Why has this been such a botched effort. And yes, it has been, ever since you made the simple change of "ctrl+T" no longer starting legacy titler all those years ago. Rather than introducing Essential Graphics while it was in development, you foisted an incomplete application on us and left legacy titler to rot. Why?

I'm not a power user of graphics in Premiere - if we need complex titling, AE is the better tool.
But, so far, my experience with with Essential Graphics has been disappointing. It seems under-featured for what it's supposed to be. Right now, I much prefer the UX of the Legacy tool to the new EGP.
The Legacy title tool is easy to use and very fast for creating and implementing simple titles.
One feature, in particular, that I want to maintain is the ability to save a title as an asset in a bin, and to duplicate and move the asset to other bins. I agree very strongly with everything that's been written below. Mick & Julien's comments in particular.
The old method of creating titles doesn't need to be eliminated.
The new EGP method needs to look, feel and behave more like the Legacy Title tool.

Our very small production company cut 100+ 60min documentaries every year, so time is critical.

Our clients are in the US & UK mostly and deliver to AMC, CBS, NBC, etc..

We used the graphics panel for a 26 x 60min series to NBC last year for our lower thirds and had lots of issues.

Primarily speed of use is the issue with the graphics and bugs when other editors take over projects - but speed is the main issue.

I don't have an issue with the essential graphics panel, but myself and many other filmmakers are very angry with Adobe for ignoring stability issues with known working aspects of Premiere and are focused too much on adding stuff we never asked for.

I hope this helps,

Mick

What I like about the Legacy Titler vs Graphic titles

1. It's really fast -

the new version slows down the edit and is very fiddly, not good for flow or fast editing, which we do a lot of here (never met an editor that likes working with new titles (we did a 26 ep series with it and nearly pulled our hair out, because of the extra amount of time it took to make an adjustment).

2. If we want fancy titles, we would create it in AE, not in Premiere.

3. Legacy titles - we need Stability, Stability & Stability....

The new titles have crashed on every machine in the office, and have caused significant disruption.

4. Sending text to clients and mastering houses is really quick and seamless,

the new version does not transfer to others, and most use AVID (Legacy Titles are not a problem).

Hello Anika.

Another ticket that explain a bit more about what we do
https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/43302588-adobe-premiere-pro-animatics-functionalities-reque?tracking_code=a15b34dfc293a4d2c3156d7d057a1518

I work in Animation. I used to work in VFX. The principle is the same : The timeline is linked in a way or another to a database and each shot has a unique ID. We think in terms of shots and not timecode (it is important at some later stage but not for most of the life of an ep).

Here are the criterias that the legacy titler meet for us.

-We need something that lives in a bin and can be put in template and be re-used.
-We need something that is visible on the timeline so everybody at every step can talk about a specific shot.
-We need something that can be automated to markers.
-Most importantly, we need something that will be readable in an edl/xml/aaf so the information can be understand by the database (like Filemaker, Shotgun, Ftrack etc).

A way to get rid of the legacy titler might be to create a shot naming tool that would fill all of those criterias. Some software like Nuke Studio let you lasso some clip and create a formula to create shot numbers. I have attached a screenshot of how that looks on our timeline.

Cheers

Julien

TaranVH. Thanks for reposting these steps, but that doesn't really help when I need to make a change in a specific existing project. Likely I'll continue to use After Effects for titling, particularly if Adobe eliminates the legacy titler. "Essential Graphics" is not user-friendly for me, and time is the one commodity I have the least of. If a Client contacts me and needs a change asap, I need to open up his/her project, make the change quickly, and output new versions for various media.

@John Graves
I'll repeat what I posted earlier.
HOW TO SAVE ALL YOUR LEGACY TITLES PERMANENTLY:
Create a new sequence with the same resolution as those titles. (If there are many different resolutions, you might want to do this for each resolution, or you can just use the highest vertical and horizontal width for the sequence, and put 'em all in there at 100% scale.)
Place all the titles onto the sequence.
Highlight them all, and open up the Clip Speed / Duration panel. (I believe it is CTRL R by default)
Change the duration to 00:00:00:01 (so, one frame each) and CHECK ON the "ripple edit, shift trailing clips" checkbox.
Press OK.
Now you should have a sequence with all your titles one 1 frame each.
Now, export that sequence as Format: PNG, PNG Sequence with Alpha.
Make a new folder and let 'em export.
Now, the exported .pngs will no longer be editable in Premiere's legacy titler, but you will at least have saved them all in full quality. And you can Photoshop them. Yep.
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You're probably gonna want to keep a copy of Premiere available on a computer somewhere, which CAN still edit those titles, even after this feature is gone. Don't reply on being able to re-download that version of Premiere... versions have gone missing from adobe creative cloud due to things like the Dolby codec no longer being licensed.
Just think worst case scenario, and prepare for that. I don't expect that the legacy titler will be around much longer...

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I still use the legacy titler, because it's quick and easy to create text/graphics, they are stored in bins, and they still render a LOT faster than mogarts... I explained in much more detail in an earlier comment.

Thanks for your input, John! Annika

Same here. I have Clients with projects dating back years and the titles were created with the legacy titler. To rebuild all those titles in the new "Motion Graphics" panel will cost me a lot of time... none of which I can ethically charge my Clients for. If the "Motion Graphics" panel was intuitive OR (even better), the Legacy Titles could be easily imported into the new titler and saved as a new file it wouldn't be so difficult to give up on the Legacy Titler.

Hi Julien! I'm a Quality Engineer on the Motion Graphics Team. I sent you an email. I am interested in hearing from about your workflows with the Legacy Titler.

I agree, please DO NOT remove it. The fact that it is an FX and not a physical thing in the bin would ruin our entire workflow. We rely on them for our tools to pickup on different information like shot and Sequence numbers.

Thanks

I agree, please keep the legacy title feature. It's very helpful for beginners. Advanced users can use After Effects, but a beginner should have the option to use the more basic tool.

I'm not sure Adobe wants to fix this/adapt this/listen on this one. Organizing graphics assets is paramount to my workflow, but the betas omit them AND offline previous version'd projects. It. Is. Gone.

And thank you for your response James! It's always so nice to know there's someone at the other end of UserVoice taking our feedback into account! If there's any other way I can help Adobe with improving Pr, it will be my pleasure!